i started off very excited about this project, but now i'm not so sure. the number of bugs is immense - the activity ranking on SF is high, but it seems mostly from unanswered problem reports. the temperament of the people on the forum is often dismissive or hostile compared to most other OS projects - if anybody spends the time to answer a question at all. also, offers to contribute have been met with flames - i think it was shameful and sad how people treated the guy who wanted to set up a new forum - no matter how poorly he went about his effort - he was honestly trying to help. you would think that might count for something.
i've deployed fckeditor on several systems in the last few months, but the number of problems, bugs and complaints from one client recently forced me to switch to another editor (and rewrite all of the integration stuff). it seems like basic things like pasting plain text, or creating hyper links are just not working very well. it just feels like fck is crumbling under its long list of features.
...so i'm wondering what other people think - and i would love to hear from fredck if he would like to comment. would it help to invite other developers? are all these problems being worked on? is this project too big for one person to manage? i want to see this project succeed, and i'm looking for some good news, but it just doesn't feel like it's on a stable path.
i'm not inviting a flame war. these are my honest observations, and my sincere curiousity and concern, so if you don't have anything constructive to say, please refrain from attacks.
thanks,
stephen
i've deployed fckeditor on several systems in the last few months, but the number of problems, bugs and complaints from one client recently forced me to switch to another editor (and rewrite all of the integration stuff). it seems like basic things like pasting plain text, or creating hyper links are just not working very well. it just feels like fck is crumbling under its long list of features.
...so i'm wondering what other people think - and i would love to hear from fredck if he would like to comment. would it help to invite other developers? are all these problems being worked on? is this project too big for one person to manage? i want to see this project succeed, and i'm looking for some good news, but it just doesn't feel like it's on a stable path.
i'm not inviting a flame war. these are my honest observations, and my sincere curiousity and concern, so if you don't have anything constructive to say, please refrain from attacks.
thanks,
stephen

RE: Wondering about the future of this projec
RE: Wondering about the future of this projec
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
What other editor did you use?
http://www
RE: What other editor did you use?
and just to be clear - i only switched for this one project - heaven help me if i have to go back and reintegrate another editor on all of the projects i've used fck on.
also, the primary reasons that i switched was because the main two things the the content people wanted to do didn't work well in fck (at least in firefox): pasting plain text, and adding links. they didn't want to have to go through multiple steps/dialogs to paste plain text, and the link editing dialog in fck is very buggy (at least in FF). i tried to see if there was a way to fix fck, but moving to tinymce was just easier given deadlines.
RE: Wondering about the future of this projec
also, i full well understand the nature of OS, from the days when i dedicated part of a team i was managing to help work out some issues that Linus was having with file locking in XFS, and the contributions i make personally on a day to day basis beginning back with early mysql. i also understand that it is generally a good sign when people are interested enough in a project to ask important questions, and a bad sign when prominent members of the community are snide or defensive about it.
it also goes without saying that anybody, with any random coding style can contribute patches so i don't need to be told that either (we also know what happens when there is not a code review process in place to complement this). however, as many of us are rolling out systems where stability and client satisfaction is critical to day to day operations, i believe it is fair to ask how this project will remain stable and supported moving forward. this question is not only in my best interests personally, it's also in the best interests of the project.
we all know that some blend of coordinated development is a better way to encourage long term sustainability of a project (OS or not) than random patches alone and a one man show. and there appear to me to be too many core problems for any one person to handle in his/her spare time with fck. so i'm curious to know what the future holds - and what other people's read on the situation is. i'm not critisizing or maoning - i'm asking a question, and relaying my experiences. i'm frankly worried about how the project is being run...there, i said it.
i like fck. i like the architecture - but i'm a coder, so i don't spend as mich time using it as my clients. so when i get bug reports or complaints and i start tinkering around as a user and i realize there are some pretty basic things that are just broken with no end in sight, i naturally get worried.
and as far as forum questions being 'hard' to answer - this is no different than on any other forum. there will always be newbies, and we all have to keep in mind that everyone's first language is not english - and forums are about helping people. helping a person get their question stated properly and then answering it is the thing that enriches the net for the next person with the same poorly phrased question. that is exactly what a forum is for,a nd that phenomenon is exactly how many of us know some of the things we know.
yes, yes, yes, i know. if it's not working out for me i could just use something else, go somewhere else, but obviously i'm not ready to do that yet. i'm just hoping to elevate the level of discussion here, if i may be so bold. and it would really be nice to change the tone from mocking and dismissive to "people helping people". and xenden, i'm sorry if you've had much more negative forum experiences than this one, but i guess i've tended to avoid them - those are the types of communities that usually fail. i'm not looking for a battle, i'm just hoping for better and more Open collaboration and communication. free expression without fear of flame.
i want to have faith, and maybe i do have some, but unfortunately faith alone doesn't keep web sites up and running or projects alive.
i know that fred doesn't owe me/us anything, and i'm already extremely grateful for the work that he's done. i accept his gift humbly the way i do with all such gifts.
...i'm just wondering...
RE: Wondering about the future of this project
I am one of those newbs. and im sure most of the seasoned people here (maybe including xenden!) get tired of the ...simple and you should have read the directions before postings, posts.
But as far as OS goes.. i think fck is doing really well and fck is a great product... most of my problems are because I dont know JS well enough.. I am working on that though.
I hope to give something back .. and if it cant be technical help.. maybe i can spare some change.
Thanks to everyone here whoe makes this project a total success....
RE: Wondering about the future of this project
Frederico Knabben
CKEditor Project Lead and CKSource Owner
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RE: Wondering about the future of this project
I agree with you 100% but I do hope that you will NOT change the license of FCKEditor so as to make it impossible to be integrated with other Open Source projects. That would certainly break my heart.
I believe that we can all work together for the good of this project. It is indeed unkind and unfair for persons to be making demands while knowing full well that this is an open source project and they have to right to fix the problems themself. It's either we wait or try to find some other means of working together for the good of the project.
On the issue of streamlining revenues from FCK, I think you might want to setup something like charter support. In this support group users pay to have urgent bugs fixed or to get special feature request. Plus they will be given yearly support.
RE: Wondering about the future of this project
http://www.fckeditor.net/support/
Frederico Knabben
CKEditor Project Lead and CKSource Owner
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Follow us on: Twitter | Facebook | Google+ | LinkedIn
RE: Wondering about the future of this projec
I am very much looking forward to a CVS respository! As well as a next release!
RE: Wondering about the future of this projec
http://www.gnu.org/gnu/manifesto.html
RE: Wondering about the future of this project
Maybe some of the posters here can also contribute the documentation as the information is a bit poor lately (although it holds a lot information).
Regarding the forum here on sourceforge.net I can say that I am not quit happy the way it if functioning. The questions/replies are great, but if has more to do with the forum software. When performing a search I mostly do not get the information I need and to make things clear it would sometimes be nice if we have the ability to use addtional markup tags. Maybe you could consider to step over to a forum software and host is directly on the fckeditor.net website, but this is just a thought...
Having several bugs (or having a large list) is mostly not a big problem if you can categorise them in different areas (like severity or occurance). If you filter on those specific criteria you will notice that the buglist is not so large.
RE: Wondering about the future of this projec
FCK2 is great, but has way too many bugs and problems. I think this is a result of the development roadmap. Adding features during RC stage not smart. I think FCK2 is at RC level (just out of beta) right now and needs multiple RC releases to become stable.
I am thinking of fixing some bugs myself (if I understand javascript well enough, which do not (yet)). The problem I have is that, although the project is open source, it's development is toally NOT open. I have no idea what fredck is doing, wat the latest state of the code is etc. If fredck would use the SF CVS repository, I could very well monitor the progress and write patches against the latest source. If I write a patch now, it's possible next week there will be FCK 2.0.1 and my patch is useless.
Since fredck does everything himself, he is VERY busy I guess. The problem with that is that most people here with bug reports, patches, suggestion etc never get an answer and probably think they are doing it for nothing.
It would be a great move if fredck opened up development so FCK can be a community project and just open source. If he doesn't, I would not be surprised with someone forks FCK and creates a community project, which would be a shame because fredck put so many hours in this.
We'll see how things go, I know for sure I'm dieing to see a new version with bugs fixed. Even if it's a beta release. With open development I would be testing a CVS snapshot right now probably...
RE: Wondering about the future of this projec
I've been using CKEditor for
I've been using CKEditor for years, and I'm truly impressed with how much work has been done on this project. I just implemented a custom plugin for the first time and have a few things to share about my experience.
First, the forums have way too many posts that go nowhere and are incomplete. Too many good questions go unanswered and it seems like people just give up. As a community, I think programmers have mostly accepted StackOverflow as the place to go for community support, so my suggestion would be to archive this forum and direct all new inquiries to StackOverflow.
Second, plugins need documentation. I spent a too much time trying to figure out how to use and integrate specific plugins. There should at least be code examples. I don't mind wading through source code if I have to, but example code would be nice if it were somehow included in the plugin description pages.
Third, I did come across a bug I would have liked to report, but I the bug tracking software requires a whole new user account, so I blew it off. I don't need any new accounts! I have a GIT account... it would be great if I could go there and submit an issue.
Great work Fredrick! You've done an amazing job!
-JP