Freditor is not good: 1. Because an editor is just not WYSIWIG! 2. And Freditor? Terminator? Exterminator. Senator? Tor? Very mighty! Cruel. And in German language: Tor means Fool! 3. Whats Freaky? Is this positive? No, it is ambivalent, it is the bad stereotype 4 openSource people. Long haired anarchos. And Frederico? Does he claim the 52 languages of FCK with his name?
I think that directed at developers as an open source project, the name doesn't have a huge impact, but it probably is worth thinking about. The current name is fine for those of us who have been using it and are familiar with it for years, but in my mind is terrible for branding and marketing, and a move to something simpler and clearer would be an improvement, and is probably worth considering.
I like the idea of something in the OpenEditor area, being very clear and direct, although perhaps just a touch too generic. Freditor is cute, and probably a step in the right direction, but remains tied to the name of the creator (certainly his right). I think that exploring more ideas of the OpenEditor type could end up with a great name which could have a positive effect (even if only marginal) on the project as a whole.
I would suggest a period of transitional branding rather than a cold turkey "FCKEditor is now OpenEditor, please adjust your bookmarks". So leaving the FCKEditor branding in a secondary way on the new site for a little while.
I'm aware that for developers, the name is not a big deal (but your clients could not like it... and so we have problems). The main issue is related to marketing activities. FCKeditor is Open Source (and it will always be), but it doesn't mean it runs out of market rules. Actually, it must be a successful business, otherwise it is destined to die, as many OS projects.
We already have a very good product here, and this shows us that FCKeditor is a long term and successful project, which tends to be better and better. It is already the most used editor out there, and it will soon become the only choice.
So, I'm looking to make it perfect on every single point, including its name. I want to remove the "but" from the phrase: "This editor is amazing, but its name...!".
Actually there will be a long transition period for the change. I'll maintain the fckeditor.net web site, pointing to the new one. The big problem is the code. Today, everything there is "FCK...", like FCKeditorAPI, FCKTools, or even only FCK. This will also change, and could be a problem to old users. Fortunately there are easy solutions for that issue, so we could have a smooth transition, and them conclude it for version 3.0.
I like the "OpenEditor"... but today, in this "OpenEverything" world, anything that start with "Open" is already in use.
Well... these are just ideas in this nice brainstorming. I still think that it is a good think to show theses problem to you, our community, as you are directly impacted with them. The results of this interaction have always been amazing.
For me FrEditor sounds like some French Editor Any other name bound to ed/editor/write/writer is mostly taken by other projects. So personally I think that it will be very hard to find a name which would stright invoke the "editor" association. Any other name will need a huge investment to make it popular between people who do not yet know FCKeditor.
Freditor has been mentioned quite a bit... I would still hope, if a new name must be found, that it not be tied to a person's name. Linux doesn't immediately bring to mind somebody's name until someone explains to you where the name comes from.
One concern with "freditor" is that it may be interpreted to be a munging of "free" and "editor"... and the whole reason for "open" was to not be "free" because of the ambiguous meaning of free in English (i.e., gratis v. libre).
So if you're trying to get around problems with English speakers, it's probably best not to create a new one....
... and the whole reason for "open" was to not be "free" because of the ambiguous meaning of free in English"
And by the way that introduced an even bigger missunderstanding, because now people think something was "open" whenever they can see the code. The point of Free Software is that there should not be any restrictions in the usage of the code (except that adding restrictions for others is not allowed).
My suggestion of freditor actually was just the fist thing that came to my mind and I was surprised that so many people liked it. I don't have a problem if it is noch chosen, but the reason you give is not a really good one.
I'll add my two cents for all those saying no name change is needed: I deployed FCKeditor in 2 companies, both times the boss/network engineer came over and complained about the name of the folder. One even thought we had been hacked.
There's no way a company would send out code to be deployed on client's servers with a folder name like that.
Finally now that I integrate fckeditor in my own CMS, it have to use Fred's full name when refering to the editor, and never mention the FCK acronym in any marketing material.
So yes, and name change is really needed, and it has nothing to do with 'pleasing the Americans' (I'm French).
And by the way, here's a list of english speaking countries:
Did they really?! After Fred's initial post of this thread I really had to think about what he was meaning? Then I finally filled in the letter, but I took me a while. I find it really sad that professional people think this way.
That really makes the FCKeditor need a new name indeed, Stephan.
But on the other hand, there are (as Google shows) over 3 million pages talking about the FCKeditor. Do they all need to change? I see confusions all around and am affraid a namechange will damage the editor or even kill it!
So an alternative? Keeping FCKeditor and creating an alias?
Or heading on into aggressive advertisement, using the filled in F_CK : "FCKeditor, Fucking Good/Great/Whatever Editor !!" I imagine an image with the FCKeditor current logo and the "u" + "good" painted on it or with graffite on it. This will undo the negative association I think, but I'm not sure if the American market can take such a 'slogan'... But is just is Fucking Good, that's a FaC(K)t!
Alternatively Fred could strike a deal with the clothing line French Connection UK and make a bundle... click on the link below if you're not familar with the fcuk 'peculiar' branding
The name change is fine. Fred makes bread from this endeavour, more power to him. If he feels change is needed for wider acceptance, so be it.
But it is a nonsense argument to say that because it's "close" to sounding bad, people would hesitate to deploy it. That is plain silly and almost deplorable. After my last post, I deleted the fsck command from all my *nux boxes (you never know, those Men in Black might mistake it for some type of porn), have stopped fingering people, and don't use gasp no more. Heh. Lemme see... yeah here:
who | grep -i blonde | talk; cd ~; wine; talk; touch; unzip; touch; strip; gasp; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; gasp; unmount; make clean; sleep;
I always get a kick out of that.
Don't get me wrong, I accept that people are silly, and thus, it's a semi-valid argument- except that if you extend that logic, we start loosing all kinds of nifty stuff, cuz it's "close", or whatever. Frankly I would not coddle silly-ness of that sort - on the flip, we all need money or barter or whatnot to get by, and that's a cold hard logic at times- as the marketing folks will tell you (they think it's that way all the time). But there is a reason they're called marketoids, and part of it is because of stuff like "FCK". I fear a world that is too Politically Correct, I guess. And acknowledging that FCK crosses the line is just sad, personally, but apparently true. *sigh* Sorry to hear that we are such a silly people. It keeps getting pounded into me, yet I have trouble believing it's true.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Einstein/Franklin
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. - George Bernard Shaw
Eh, I get it, and it's cool, but if we have to put out a press release, can we use wisnick's idea and say the name change was to encourage participation, and totally disregard the fact that some people have problems keeping their minds out of the gutter? I'd hate to encourage that kind of thinking. There are already enough limits on us as it is! Fuck!
LOL! Good stuff, and point taken- and proffered. XD
At the FCKeditor forum we are brainstorming on a new name for the editor. I proposed 'Cune', but someone else pointed to your project. Is cuneAform still alive? If not maybe part of the name might reincarnate into a new name for the FCKeditor...
-----------
And he has mailed me back that the project is stopping.
-----------
Hi Paul,
Go for it! I'm working on completely closing down cuneaform.mozdev.org and will redirect it to your site. Also feel free to use "cuneAform" in it's entirety if you like, I'd be honored to see it go to use. But, I must ask a condition, you can only use it on opensource.org compliant licensed products. So the commercial version of FCKeditor couldn't carry the cune* name.
-----------
So no problem there !!
Maybe if Frederico also likes 'Cune' we can set up a poll.
Was thinking about 'What You See Is What You Get' and when you prenounce parts of it you could say things like: Wayoo (used http://www.google.com/search?q=wayoo) wayooc wayoog yooged
some others: ceegle @it||dye (edit or die, edit-or dye, editing and coloring... oke, just a joke)
I wouldn't name it anything that would be linked with "free" i'd rather, link it to something that is overly priced... let the pleasant suprise that its free be the sinking hook to reel in more business clients.
Perhaps:
Ornate Editor PoshEditor,
Opulent - 1. characterized by or exhibiting opulence: an opulent suite. 2. wealthy, rich, or affluent. 3. richly supplied; abundant or plentiful: opulent sunshine.
Ever since I've been using FCKeditor, I have been pronouncing it as "fickle editor" for some reason (rhymes with tickle). And out of convenience, I have sometimes referred to it as just "fickle" too.
So there you have it -- a few more proposals that are variants of the original name:
RE: Frecko
1. Because an editor is just not WYSIWIG!
2. And Freditor? Terminator? Exterminator. Senator? Tor? Very mighty! Cruel. And in German language: Tor means Fool!
3. Whats Freaky? Is this positive? No, it is ambivalent, it is the bad stereotype 4 openSource people. Long haired anarchos. And Frederico? Does he claim the 52 languages of FCK with his name?
RE: Name changing ideas. Leave your opinion.
Change all the name. Truncate it sounds bad for me.
Perhaps some acronym as open source like
RE: Name changing ideas. Leave your opinion.
I like the idea of something in the OpenEditor area, being very clear and direct, although perhaps just a touch too generic. Freditor is cute, and probably a step in the right direction, but remains tied to the name of the creator (certainly his right). I think that exploring more ideas of the OpenEditor type could end up with a great name which could have a positive effect (even if only marginal) on the project as a whole.
I would suggest a period of transitional branding rather than a cold turkey "FCKEditor is now OpenEditor, please adjust your bookmarks". So leaving the FCKEditor branding in a secondary way on the new site for a little while.
RE: Name changing ideas. Leave your opinion.
I'm aware that for developers, the name is not a big deal (but your clients could not like it... and so we have problems). The main issue is related to marketing activities. FCKeditor is Open Source (and it will always be), but it doesn't mean it runs out of market rules. Actually, it must be a successful business, otherwise it is destined to die, as many OS projects.
We already have a very good product here, and this shows us that FCKeditor is a long term and successful project, which tends to be better and better. It is already the most used editor out there, and it will soon become the only choice.
So, I'm looking to make it perfect on every single point, including its name. I want to remove the "but" from the phrase: "This editor is amazing, but its name...!".
Actually there will be a long transition period for the change. I'll maintain the fckeditor.net web site, pointing to the new one. The big problem is the code. Today, everything there is "FCK...", like FCKeditorAPI, FCKTools, or even only FCK. This will also change, and could be a problem to old users. Fortunately there are easy solutions for that issue, so we could have a smooth transition, and them conclude it for version 3.0.
I like the "OpenEditor"... but today, in this "OpenEverything" world, anything that start with "Open" is already in use.
Well... these are just ideas in this nice brainstorming. I still think that it is a good think to show theses problem to you, our community, as you are directly impacted with them. The results of this interaction have always been amazing.
Thanks again,
FredCK
Frederico Knabben
CKEditor Project Lead and CKSource Owner
--
Follow us on: Twitter | Facebook | Google+ | LinkedIn
RE: Name changing ideas. Leave your opinion.
For me FrEditor sounds like some French Editor
Any other name bound to ed/editor/write/writer is mostly taken by other projects.
So personally I think that it will be very hard to find a name which would stright invoke the "editor" association. Any other name will need a huge investment to make it popular between people who do not yet know FCKeditor.
RE: Name changing ideas. Leave your opinion.
One concern with "freditor" is that it may be interpreted to be a munging of "free" and "editor"... and the whole reason for "open" was to not be "free" because of the ambiguous meaning of free in English (i.e., gratis v. libre).
So if you're trying to get around problems with English speakers, it's probably best not to create a new one....
RE: Name changing ideas. Leave your opinion.
Frederico Knabben
CKEditor Project Lead and CKSource Owner
--
Follow us on: Twitter | Facebook | Google+ | LinkedIn
RE: Name changing ideas. Leave your opinion.
And by the way that introduced an even bigger missunderstanding, because now people think something was "open" whenever they can see the code. The point of Free Software is that there should not be any restrictions in the usage of the code (except that adding restrictions for others is not allowed).
My suggestion of freditor actually was just the fist thing that came to my mind and I was surprised that so many people liked it. I don't have a problem if it is noch chosen, but the reason you give is not a really good one.
RE: Name changing ideas. Leave your opinion.
WENH
Web Editor Not HMLarea
</joke-mode>
RE: Name changing ideas. Leave your opinion.
I'll add my two cents for all those saying no name change is needed: I deployed FCKeditor in 2 companies, both times the boss/network engineer came over and complained about the name of the folder. One even thought we had been hacked.
There's no way a company would send out code to be deployed on client's servers with a folder name like that.
Finally now that I integrate fckeditor in my own CMS, it have to use Fred's full name when refering to the editor, and never mention the FCK acronym in any marketing material.
So yes, and name change is really needed, and it has nothing to do with 'pleasing the Americans' (I'm French).
And by the way, here's a list of english speaking countries:
http://www.answers.com/topic/list-of-co ... population
RE: Name changing ideas. Leave your opinion.
That really makes the FCKeditor need a new name indeed, Stephan.
But on the other hand, there are (as Google shows) over 3 million pages talking about the FCKeditor. Do they all need to change? I see confusions all around and am affraid a namechange will damage the editor or even kill it!
So an alternative? Keeping FCKeditor and creating an alias?
Or heading on into aggressive advertisement, using the filled in F_CK : "FCKeditor, Fucking Good/Great/Whatever Editor !!" I imagine an image with the FCKeditor current logo and the "u" + "good" painted on it or with graffite on it. This will undo the negative association I think, but I'm not sure if the American market can take such a 'slogan'... But is just is Fucking Good, that's a FaC(K)t!
RE: Name changing ideas. Leave your opinion.
Nice one Saul ;D
Alternatively Fred could strike a deal with the clothing line French Connection UK and make a bundle... click on the link below if you're not familar with the fcuk 'peculiar' branding
http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=fcu ... a=N&tab=wi
RE: Name changing ideas. Leave your opinion.
Ah, so it's about pleasing the French, eh?
The name change is fine. Fred makes bread from this endeavour, more power to him. If he feels change is needed for wider acceptance, so be it.
But it is a nonsense argument to say that because it's "close" to sounding bad, people would hesitate to deploy it. That is plain silly and almost deplorable.
After my last post, I deleted the fsck command from all my *nux boxes (you never know, those Men in Black might mistake it for some type of porn), have stopped fingering people, and don't use gasp no more. Heh. Lemme see... yeah here:
who | grep -i blonde | talk; cd ~; wine; talk; touch; unzip; touch; strip; gasp; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; gasp; unmount; make clean; sleep;
I always get a kick out of that.
Don't get me wrong, I accept that people are silly, and thus, it's a semi-valid argument- except that if you extend that logic, we start loosing all kinds of nifty stuff, cuz it's "close", or whatever.
Frankly I would not coddle silly-ness of that sort - on the flip, we all need money or barter or whatnot to get by, and that's a cold hard logic at times- as the marketing folks will tell you (they think it's that way all the time). But there is a reason they're called marketoids, and part of it is because of stuff like "FCK". I fear a world that is too Politically Correct, I guess. And acknowledging that FCK crosses the line is just sad, personally, but apparently true. *sigh* Sorry to hear that we are such a silly people. It keeps getting pounded into me, yet I have trouble believing it's true.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Einstein/Franklin
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. - George Bernard Shaw
Eh, I get it, and it's cool, but if we have to put out a press release, can we use wisnick's idea and say the name change was to encourage participation, and totally disregard the fact that some people have problems keeping their minds out of the gutter? I'd hate to encourage that kind of thinking. There are already enough limits on us as it is! Fuck!
LOL! Good stuff, and point taken- and proffered.
XD
RE: Name changing ideas. Leave your opinion.
The OPen Source Editor
aka
TOPSEditor
I did a quick search for it, and only found something at the University of Leeds. I'm not sure if this name was used elsewhere?
Names? BRAINSTORM !!!!!!!
WebWord, Word4Web,Weddi, WebEdit,Ed2Web, txtwebber, edWeb, Textdesigner,....
RE: Name changing ideas. Leave your opinion.
RE: Name changing ideas. Leave your opinion.
RE: Name changing ideas. Leave your opinion.
... (private french joke)
------
I like the idea
or maybe 'Sylla'
In the same line of thought, maybe 'Sylla' refering to 'Syllable' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syllable). Personally I don't think it sounds as good as 'Cune' and sounds feminine, but its also short and easy to remember/pronounce. Unfontrunatly it seems to be a common last name (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Se ... arch=sylla and http://www.google.com/search?q=sylla)
RE: or maybe 'Sylla'
Sorry, that sound just 'Silly' to me
another idea : 'Creole'
'Creole', refering to Creole language (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creole_language ), but the word is used quite often ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creole , http://www.google.com/search?q=creole ) and, again, not sounding that nice.
what about 'Cune'
To pick this up again (altough not sure if it's still in the planning)
What about Cune?
Refering to Cuneiform script (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuneiform_script)
and not really meaning anything else (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=cune , http://www.google.com/search?q=cune)
RE: what about 'Cune'
Such a name could be compared to the new name of Gaim, Pidgin ( http://pidgin.im/ , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pidgin ) which I find brilliant, although I first had to get used to it for a moment.
RE: what about 'Cune'
Although it seems dead there's already a CuneAform editor http://cuneaform.mozdev.org/home/index.htm
RE: what about 'Cune'
-----------
Hello Robin,
At the FCKeditor forum we are brainstorming on a new name for the editor. I proposed 'Cune', but someone else pointed to your project. Is cuneAform still alive? If not maybe part of the name might reincarnate into a new name for the FCKeditor...
-----------
And he has mailed me back that the project is stopping.
-----------
Hi Paul,
Go for it! I'm working on completely closing down cuneaform.mozdev.org and will redirect it to your site. Also feel free to use "cuneAform" in it's entirety if you like, I'd be honored to see it go to use. But, I must ask a condition, you can only use it on opensource.org compliant licensed products. So the commercial version of FCKeditor couldn't carry the cune* name.
-----------
So no problem there !!
Maybe if Frederico also likes 'Cune' we can set up a poll.
RE: what about 'Cune'
The name is not bad, but still to talk.
There are some showstopper issues:
http://www.cune.com/
http://www.cune.org/
http://www.cune.net/ (Owned by Concordia University)
Frederico Knabben
CKEditor Project Lead and CKSource Owner
--
Follow us on: Twitter | Facebook | Google+ | LinkedIn
RE: what about 'Cune'
The "other" small issue is that in the czech language čuně means pig.
cune - pig
cune - piglet
cune - goop
cunik - piggy
cunik - grunter
as of the english czech dictionary
RE: what about 'Cune'
Maybe then:
qune (but used quite often: http://www.google.com/search?q=qune)
then perhaps: Qoone, quna, qoona, qunu (this latter is also taken http://www.google.com/search?q=qunu)
Was thinking about 'What You See Is What You Get' and when you prenounce parts of it you could say things like:
Wayoo (used http://www.google.com/search?q=wayoo)
wayooc
wayoog
yooged
some others:
ceegle
@it||dye (edit or die, edit-or dye, editing and coloring... oke, just a joke)
Something to keep in mind.
Perhaps:
Ornate Editor
PoshEditor,
Opulent -
1. characterized by or exhibiting opulence: an opulent suite.
2. wealthy, rich, or affluent.
3. richly supplied; abundant or plentiful: opulent sunshine.
-Jason
RE: Name changing ideas. Leave your opinion.
So there you have it -- a few more proposals that are variants of the original name:
Fickle
Fickal
Fickel
Fickl